Pigs LS vs. Pentecost

[RTSmaniac]

Does the Pigs LS prevent drawing from Pentecost?

Pigs LS (Di)
Type: Lost Soul • Brigade: None • Ability: None • Class: None • Special Ability: Prevent all draw abilities, except on Heroes. • Identifiers: None • Verse: Luke 15:15-16 • Availability: Disciples booster packs ()

Pentecost (Pi)
Type: Hero Enh. • Brigade: Teal/Purple • Ability: None • Class: None • Special Ability: Set aside all of your human Heroes for one turn. On return, you may draw three cards. • Identifiers: OT, Feast • Verse: Leviticus 23:16 •

[RTSmaniac]

My guess is no b/c the set-aside is a gained ability that CBN, correct?

[Minister Polarius]

Yes, actually. Set-asides themselves can be Negated. Gained abilities cannot. For a long time the two were intertwined (no set-aside did something other than give a gained ability), so people have a mentality of "set-asides are CBN," but that's not true. The Pigs LS stops all of the drawing Feasts unless they are played on Joshua the HP in battle.

[Lamborghini_diablo]

Yes, actually. Set-asides themselves can be Negated. Gained abilities cannot. For a long time the two were intertwined (no set-aside did something other than give a gained ability), so people have a mentality of "set-asides are CBN," but that's not true. The Pigs LS stops all of the drawing Feasts unless they are played on Joshua the HP in battle.

Or someone you just played His Name is John on, seeing as that grants CBN status for the whole turn.

[RTSmaniac]

so if its not giving a gained ability, what is the effect called? Is it just an effect from a set aside card?

[ChristianSoldier]

Thats what I would assume

[Professoralstad]

It's a triggered effect that triggers when the heroes return. It can be prevented/negated, unless it was CBN when played (as Polarius said with Josh or now with His Name is John).

[RTSmaniac]

bump

need confirmation please

[Gabe]

The special ability gained in set-aside cannot be interrupted, prevented or negated when the character enters the Field of Battle.

The Set-Aside section of the old REG was written before the set-aside cards from Priests were released.  It alludes to the fact that abilities gained from set-aside cards cannot be negated.  When that section of the REG is updated it will be more clearly stated.

Abilities gained while set-aside cannot be negated after return.

That includes the draw from Pentecost.

[RTSmaniac]

That includes the draw from Feast of Trumpets Pentecost.

 

ok thats one elder for it and one elder against it- what say ye?

[EmJayBee83]

Pigs LS (Di)
Type: Lost Soul • Brigade: None • Ability: None • Class: None • Special Ability: Prevent all draw abilities, except on Heroes. • Identifiers: None • Verse: Luke 15:15-16 • Availability: Disciples booster packs ()

I'm pretty sure that the SA on Pigs LS is a protect/restrict (just like Jerusalem Tower). Play As: Restrict all decks from being forcibly drawn from.    


OK, that didn't help at all, did it?  I only hope I live long enough to see someone reference the above claim in another ruling thread--that would be the sweet, sweet taste of victory.

[Korunks]

The special ability gained in set-aside cannot be interrupted, prevented or negated when the character enters the Field of Battle.

The Set-Aside section of the old REG was written before the set-aside cards from Priests were released.  It alludes to the fact that abilities gained from set-aside cards cannot be negated.  When that section of the REG is updated it will be more clearly stated.

Abilities gained while set-aside cannot be negated after return.

That includes the draw from Pentecost.

I disagree.  Since when is drawing a gained ability?

[Josh]

Pigs LS (Di)
Type: Lost Soul • Brigade: None • Ability: None • Class: None • Special Ability: Prevent all draw abilities, except on Heroes. • Identifiers: None • Verse: Luke 15:15-16 • Availability: Disciples booster packs ()

I'm pretty sure that the SA on Pigs LS is a protect/restrict (just like Jerusalem Tower). Play As: Restrict all decks from being forcibly drawn from.    


OK, that didn't help at all, did it?  I only hope I live long enough to see someone reference the above claim in another ruling thread--that would be the sweet, sweet taste of victory.

It says "Prevent...", so I think it means Prevent.  As in, CBN drawing (Hur, etc) works.

That being said, which hero "gains" the ability to draw 3 cards?  It seems much more like a trigger - if all the heroes you set aside return to your territory, you can draw 3.

[SomeKittens]

It would seem to me that whatever hero that had the enhancement initially placed on him/her/Hur would "gain" the ability.

[Gabe]

Each of the dual color set-asides in Priests work the same way.  They say to set-aside all your human Heroes.  The ability is gained by all of them as a whole.  In that same sense, if any one of them is discarded from set-aside or returned early by a special ability, none of the Heroes gain the ability and you don't draw.

[Korunks]

It was triggered by returning, not gained by a character.  And here another elder has ruled it as a triggered ability not a gained one.

so if its not giving a gained ability, what is the effect called? Is it just an effect from a set aside card?

It's a triggered effect that triggers when the heroes return. It can be prevented/negated, unless it was CBN when played (as Polarius said with Josh or now with His Name is John).

This is from the other thread here.

Currently there is no elder consensus, so now what?


Also, we currently have the same discussion occuring in two threads can we contain it in one or the other?

[RTSmaniac]

my bad