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Q2. No, unless it states while in play, then it only works in battle.
And the "If your demon is discarded, place it beneath deck instead." Means all demons being discarded as long as Wandering spirit is in battle are placed under deck instead correct? And does this override Tartaros?
I don't understand why the demon would not go to Tartaros. You can only instead the discard once. The demon was about to be discarded, but it goes to Tartaros instead. That means it is not being discarded, so WS's ability does not activate.
This is a case where the Play As is correct in doing its job, which is explaining how Apostles cards work and how they would be worded if printed today. I agree with YMT that Tartaros would activate first.
WS is powerful enough as it is, I don't mind seeing Tartaros being used as an effective counter.
I know that there is (or should be) an order of "which cards activate first" in this type of situation, but where is it? Where do we have it ruled that fortresses take precedent over characters or enhancements?
Does it make any difference that Tartaros specifies demons that "holder" discards, meaning that if your opponent discards it then it does not go to Tartaros?
Quote from: Maynid on July 04, 2012, 01:11:13 AMDoes it make any difference that Tartaros specifies demons that "holder" discards, meaning that if your opponent discards it then it does not go to Tartaros?I think that was the point of Tartaros being a counter. If you discard your opponent's Wandering Spirirt, then it goes to your Tartaros, rather than the bottom of their deck. In effect, you are taking control of their demons.
Well, obviously it wasn't designed as a counter to WS unless someone went back in time
However, I'm still questioning where the rule is that fortresses take precedence over characters (or vice versa), and what takes effect first as far as those cards and who owns them (for instance, if it is your Tartaros or your opponent's, or your own character or your opponents).This needs to be specified, and I've not seen it before.
wait, if Tartoros is not an instead, doesn't it limit to play (or Discard Pile) and the instead would stop the Discard so WS would drop under Deck before Tartoros could target it and so cannot target a Demon if it under a deck?
The rule is that the first ability activated takes precedence. Fortresses are in effect from the moment they enter play, so a previously activated fortress will usually take precedence over an enhancement or character. That is why Dungeon of Malchiah does not work as a LS generator if you have Raider's Camp active.
That things are arbitrary and cumbersome more often than not?
Quote from: Redoubter on July 04, 2012, 03:15:48 AM That things are arbitrary and cumbersome more often than not?I fail to see how "first come, first served" is arbitrary and cumbersome. That seems much easier than having an heirarchy of ability types.
Then what if I put WS in play before you put Tartaros is put in play, or at some point Tartaros is negated,...
Or what if we can't remember who put Tartaros in play first?
That's why you need a hard-and-fast rule on what triggers first.
Quote from: Redoubter on July 04, 2012, 03:20:35 AM Then what if I put WS in play before you put Tartaros is put in play, or at some point Tartaros is negated,... WS wins in both cases....Pay more attention during your games. Otherwise RPS or roll the dice.
If we have to roll a die to decide which ability wins, we have a problem with game rules.