Asahel/Jael & Passover and Unleavened Bread

[Lamborghini_diablo]

I've never heard of a card giving another card an ability AFTER a character has entered battle. Gained abilities only activate at step 2 in the order of abilities.

[Bryon]

The gain has to happen as the character returns from set aside.  Maybe this would work:

Current wording:
"Set aside all of your human Heroes for one turn.  Each of them gains the ability 'If none of the characters set aside with P&UB have entered battle since returning from the set aside area, return an Evil Character in play to the bottom of its owner's draw pile.'"

Possible wording:
Set aside all of your human Heroes for one turn.  Each of them gains the ability "Return an Evil Character in play to the bottom of its owner's draw pile."  After the ability is used once, all heroes lose that ability.

[Lamborghini_diablo]

That works for me.

[galadgawyn]

If you are going to change it, I agree that is probably the best wording so far. 

However, I also don't think it should be errated.  Inherently, the less of that there is, the better for the game overall. 

It is strong but not more than many other options in the game.  After seeing Mark use it against us in teams (and we still beat him), I was mentally preparing team decks to handle that. 

As for the split opinion with players, that happens all the time.  I think that has to do more with the general confusion about the rules than the wording on the card.  Some cards are very confusing to read but not this one.  I think if everyone had a clear understanding of the order of operations rules, the definitions of triggered abilities, etc. then I don't think there would have been a split opinion here. 

I originally assumed it was a gained ability because that is how most other set-aside abilities work.  Upon seeing Mark use it however, I carefully read the card and realized that it should work that way according to current rules. 
Now I think that the card originally should have been worded as a gained ability but since when do we go back and change the wording to what it should be?  Split Altar?

[SirNobody]

Hey,

First, I would like to apologize.  We (the PTB) did not handle the questions and concerns about this card well, namely it took us entirely too long to come to a consensus on the issue and share that with the players.

That being said, there are a few things that should be put out there officially (or as "officially" as I can make them).

This is not Errata.  This is only Play As.  We are not actually changing how the card is played, we are just correcting a very common misinterpretation of the ability.  The misinterpretation being that it was a triggered ability when it was in fact a gained ability.  I realize that to the player base the difference between "errata" and "correcting an ubiquitous misinterpretation" is negligible, and it gets back to our poor response time to the issue.  If we had said that it was a gained ability and not a triggered ability when it first came up it wouldn't have been as big of a deal as it is now, but we let it fester for too long unresolved leading to the backlash that it is now receiving.

A difference between errata and play as is that errata is a change while play as is correcting an error.  We have a policy against making changes during the main part of the tournament season, but we have no similar policy against correcting errors.  When we find an error we fix it immediately.

Another difference is that Errata is reserved for cards that break the game or are non-functional as worded.  That is a very high standard that P&UB doesn't reach (it comes close and we were considering weather or not it merited errata, but ultimately we didn't decide that it was broken).  We did decide that the way we were playing it didn't match the words written on the card, thus the play as.

As far as how exactly to word the Play As, it's possible that the best wording is actually the wording on the card, but just with a correct understanding that "For the next one of those Heroes to enter battle" is a condition not a trigger.

Tschow,

Tim "Sir Nobody" Maly

[Lamborghini_diablo]

As far as how exactly to word the Play As, it's possible that the best wording is actually the wording on the card, but just with a correct understanding that "For the next one of those Heroes to enter battle" is a condition not a trigger.

So how about my suggestion up above then? It's almost exactly the same, but makes it much clearer that the ability is gained.

[Korunks]

So do we know when this particular little rule change is going to occur?  I know that is a sensitive subject right now but NE regionals is this weekend, I want to know if this combo is still valid( ie.  I might see it).  Also I am judging MD states in less than a month, need to know how to rule.

[Mr.Hiatus]

No it got changed.

[crustpope]

It is already a done deal.  It doesnt work for the purposes of chosing a blocker and then placing that blocker beneath owners draw pile.

[Korunks]

Did I miss the official errata thread?

[crustpope]

I dont think it made it to the erratta thread yet  because they are still working on the wording, but I know for a fact that it does not work.

[STAMP]

Holy paranoia, Batman! 

I hereby forego making funny comments on other threads.  I will simply point them to this thread.


Seriously.


SOOOO glad I'm retired.

[crustpope]

I particularly liked it when Profunderwood used this combo against me in its previous incarnation at the Ohio State Tournament and then "conviniently" annouced that it had beem ruled against a few weeks later.

Seems awful fishy to me