Ignoring from the territory

[egilkinc]

hey,

Can characters in a territory ignore other characters?

REG Glossary: "An ignore card stops an ignored character from entering the Field of Battle."

Tribal Elder bands to Jacob and Reuben's Torn Clothes is played. Christian Martyr discards Jacob, but the attacker has other Genesis heroes in their territory. Does the Genesis Hero in the territory stop a character from the ignored brigade from entering the Field of Battle?

It seems to me that the Genesis heroes gain the ignore ability. Are they active while in the territory, however (like Household Idols)?

Thanx,
Gil

[TimMierz]

From what I've understood, as wonky as it sounds, that does work. I think it sounds a little crazy, but Tim Maly has assured me that's the case.

[Prof Underwood]

This does sound strange to me, but I suppose that Tim Mierzwerxztbei would be the one to know considering he is our current national champion based on a deck that used this very offense

[TimMierz]

This does sound strange to me, but I suppose that Tim Mierzwerxztbei would be the one to know considering he is our current national champion based on a deck that used this very offense

1) It's "Myxlplyx"
2) I didn't have any non-Genesis Heroes, so it never came up.

This arose from a question I had about what characters were repelling good banding cards when Household Idols was active. The answer was, to my surprise, "none" - the artifact itself was ignoring it. I thought I'd be all trickysneaky and gave an example similar to what you suggested to show that it seemed ridiculous to me, and he responded with a "yeah that's right." And then I was all like "oh."

[egilkinc]

hey,

If The Garden Tomb is in play and active, Hushai attacks, and John is in my territory, does John stop a character from an ignored brigade from entering the Field of Battle?

Seems more than a little wonky to me.

Might I suggest either
1) a new default condition for Ignore that, "Characters that ignore must be in battle for their ignore to stop an ignored character from entering the Field of Battle."
or
2) an errata for The Garden Tomb stating, "If opponent has a Redeemed Soul, then, while they are in battle, Salome, Mary Magdalene, Joanna, Peter, John, and Mary the Mother of James ignore all evil brigades that do not have at least two Characters in play."

L8er,
Gil

[TimMierz]

Good catch: It seems like something like that is necessary.

[STAMP]

Good catch: It seems like something like that is necessary.

Agreed.  Otherwise, T1 Multi at Nats will need to be renamed TGT Multi.

[Gabe]

Good catch: It seems like something like that is necessary.

Agreed.  Otherwise, T1 Multi at Nats will need to be renamed TGT Multi.

That might be the case anyway.  It seems that the question this year isn't "will you be playing TGT?" but "what will you be pairing with your TGT offense?". 

[EmJayBee83]

1) It's "Myxlplyx"

But can you say that backwards?

[The Schaef]

It seems to me that a character has to be in battle to be ignoring another character.  Additionally, RTC and TGT are granting ignore powers to the specified characters, as opposed to HHI which is universally ignoring all characters with banding ability.

[egilkinc]

hey,
Can a character in a territory be immune from another character? If Mary Mag.is banded in and then withdraws, can the Strong Demon play Wrath of Satanand discard her in the territory?
L8er,
Gil

[TimMierz]

Characters in territories can certainly be immune. That's all that the "Color Guard" LS does, and other cards like Blindness make it possible without strange situations.

As far as your scenario goes, it's a no-go, because:
"Immunity ceases when the immunity card is removed from battle (e.g., discarded, set aside, returned to hand, etc.)."

[RTSmaniac]

unless it had some type of judas/aaron ability like as long as this character remains in play

[egilkinc]

As far as your scenario goes, it's a no-go, because:

hey,
Yup, you're right. Ok, so immunity ends when the character leaves battle, but ignorance "ends when the ignore card is negated or interrupted and discarded." So, if a Garden Tomb John is made to withdraw, according to the ongoing definition of ignore, John would continue ignoring until the end of the battle.
I sure can't find any indication that a character cannot ignore another character from the territory.
L8er,
Gil

[STAMP]

As far as your scenario goes, it's a no-go, because:

hey,
Yup, you're right. Ok, so immunity ends when the character leaves battle, but ignorance "ends when the ignore card is negated or interrupted and discarded." So, if a Garden Tomb John is made to withdraw, according to the ongoing definition of ignore, John would continue ignoring until the end of the battle.
I sure can't find any indication that a character cannot ignore another character from the territory.
L8er,
Gil

Although Tim quoted the REG, I see this as a inconsistency with how ongoing abilities have been defined and refined over the past few years.  Mary Mag's immunity should last until the end of the battle phase unless it gets negated.

[SirNobody]

Hey,

As far as your scenario goes, it's a no-go, because:
"Immunity ceases when the immunity card is removed from battle (e.g., discarded, set aside, returned to hand, etc.)."

That line from the REG has come up before and the PTB have stated that it is erroneous.  Sign of the Rainbow does not stop Baalam's Disobedience.

Tschow,

Tim "Sir Nobody" Maly

[lightningninja]

That's because Balaam's disobedience cannot be negated. But I agree that just discarding does not negate.

[SirNobody]

Hey,

If The Garden Tomb is in play and active, Hushai attacks, and John is in my territory, does John stop a character from an ignored brigade from entering the Field of Battle?

I have been treating The Garden Tomb as if it has the play as, "If opponent has a Redeemed Soul, Salome, Mary Magdalene, Joanna, Peter, John, and Mary the Mother of James gain the ability 'ignores all evil brigades that do not have at least two characters in play.'"

As such, just having John in your territory wouldn't result in evil brigades being ignored.  He has to enter battle and activate his gained ability, but once he does that even if John leaves battle, the brigades would still be ignored (Similar to how Christian Martyr on Captain of the Host removes Captain from battle but his ability stays in effect).

Tschow,

Tim "Sir Nobody" Maly

[Cameron the Conqueror]

I agree with the first part about how brigades are not ignored from territory.  However, I disagree that the evil brigades are still ignored if a GT hero is removed.  GT states that those certain heroes ignore, not that everyone does.  Stating that they gain an ability isn't actually how the card is played, it says that John ignores, not everyone else.

[SirNobody]

Hey,

GT states that those certain heroes ignore, not that everyone does. ... it says that John ignores, not everyone else.

When one character ignores it is the only one doing the ignoring, but others can benefit from that fact.  (Rebekah, Courage, Widow vs. Goliath - Rebekah is not ignoring Goliath but Rebekah survives because Widow is ignoring Goliath).  If John is banded in then leaves battle, John is the one doing the ignoring, but the other heroes that remain in battle benefit from the ignoring John is doing in that the ignored characters cannot block.

Stating that they gain an ability isn't actually how the card is played,

Are you sure?  How is the card played?  Playing The Garden Tomb as a gained ability is closer to how it is/should be played than John ignoring from the territory, which technically as The Garden Tomb is written, is what it should do.

Tschow,

Tim "Sir Nobody" Maly

[lightningninja]

If you get rid of John, you are no longer ignoring.

[SirNobody]

Hey,

If you get rid of John, you are no longer ignoring.

I am never ignoring anything.  John is ignoring.   And leaving battle doesn't cause John to stop ignoring.

Tschow,

Tim "Sir Nobody" Maly

[Gabe]

If you get rid of John, you are no longer ignoring.

I agree with the ninja on this statement so long as John is no longer in play.  Likewise, from Tim's example, if the Widow is removed from play then Rebekah is no longer winning vs. Goliath.

[lightningninja]

Yep. This scenario came up at Bryon's tourney:

Chen+King david, cm on King David, can he still block with emperors. Bryon ruled that since David wasn't in battle, emperors could come back in.

[SirNobody]

Hey,

I agree with the ninja on this statement so long as John is no longer in play.  Likewise, from Tim's example, if the Widow is removed from play then Rebekah is no longer winning vs. Goliath.

If Captain of the Host is removed from play without being negated does his ability continue to affect the battle?  Yes.
If Household Idols is removed from play without being negated does it's ability continue to affect the battle?  Yes.

But if King David is removed from play without being negated his ability doesn't continue to affect the battle?

Tschow,

Tim "Sir Nobody" Maly